Any ideas why olive oil would cause severe aggression tantrums?
From a reader
This is an interesting question.. When I see “severe aggression tantrums”, my mind goes to hypoxia (shortage of oxygen delivery to the brain).
The most significant impact of short-term memory loss for a person with hypoxia is that it impairs the ability to retain and recall new or unfamiliar information. Behavioural changes. The person may become more verbally and physically aggressive. They may also have issues with disinhibition
A continuous monitoring with a Saturated O2 monitor may reveal this shift (it may not, if the inflammation is in the brain — the monitor is unlikely to record it). For myself, I use a relatively cheap smart watch that records SO2 every 10-15 minutes as part of my normal proactive health monitoring, see Monitoring watch for CFS and other Conditions.
This is just a model, with some ability to check the mechanism.
My son is 5.4 years old , he was diagnosed with autism at 22 months of age .
We have been strict gluten free casein free sugar free no processed food since his diagnosis .
For almost 2 years we followed the ne chek protocol with olive oil, fish oil and 1/32 spoon of inulin.
My son was always verbal with alphabets , numbers colors , planets shapes , colors etc and the odd one / two word request sentences but never conversational.
His receptive language was very poor until maybe the last year where he is able to follow simple one step instructions.
He now repeats what is said to him and can answer to what is your name and other v simple questions .
He is not potty trained and does not understand social norms . He interacts with family members and other adults ( other adults mostly for his needs )
He eats mainly veg and chicken , fish or lamb . Occasionally rice but mostly carb free.
He consumes a lot of bananas in a day (5-6).
Foreword – and Reminder
I am not a licensed medical professional and there are strict laws where I live about “appearing to practice medicine”. I am safe when it is “academic models” and I keep to the language of science, especially statistics. I am not safe when the explanations have possible overtones of advising a patient instead of presenting data to be evaluated by a medical professional before implementing.
I cannot tell people what they should take or not take. I can inform people items that have better odds of improving their microbiome as a results on numeric calculations. I am a trained experienced statistician with appropriate degrees and professional memberships. All suggestions should be reviewed by your medical professional before starting.
Reminder: the purpose of these posts is show the process. Every individual will get different suggestions, the suggestions should not be used viewed as suggestions for any symptom or condition.
The percentile overview shows a moderate bias toward rarer bacteria.
Percentile
Genus
Species
0 – 9
22
37
10 – 19
22
21
20 – 29
17
13
30 – 39
8
12
40 – 49
11
14
50 – 59
4
6
60 – 69
9
12
70 – 79
11
17
80 – 89
12
15
90 – 99
11
16
Potential Medical Conditions Detected has two very interesting items over 90%ile matches, namely:
Brain Trauma (99%ile)
Schizophrenia (98%ile)
For Autism he is down at the 81%ile
Other items over 90% tend to be age related, i.e. Alopecia (Hair Loss), hypertension (High Blood Pressure)
Dr. Jason Hawrelak Recommendations came in at 95.6%ile healthy, so no issue there
Since the interpretation of the microbiome data was done thru biomesight, we see that the top matches include:
Depression
Autism
Easily Irritated
Brain Fog
Neurocognitive: Attention, Memory, Focus
We have 8 significant pattern matches above and will use each to build a consensus of suggestions. A pattern match means that both of the following appear correct: microbiome pattern matches, the patients symptoms or issue are a reasonable match.
Speculation: The brain trauma and schizophrenia being a much stronger match than autism hints that this child issue may be more related to the microbiome than autism proper.
We have agreement between two very different paths of picking them (i.e. one by using the genomics of the microbiome and looking at the genomics of the probiotics; the other was using clinical studies reporting desired shifts for the bacteria that was selected). To put some specific brands (when not named above) see this list.
Many of the above are clustered, i.e. d-ribose and e.coli probiotics (one feeds the other); high saturated milk fat diet and (cottage cheese, galactose, lactose).
Diet style
The Avoids
The avoidance list is rich in “you should be taking items” suggested on the social media on the internet. In fact, they are contrary to the pattern that I typically see with ME/CFS or Long COVID. Everyone is different and it is good to do an evidence based approach for suggestions.
Questions and Answers
Readers usually get a chance to provide more information and ask questions before postings.
Q: we have been on a strict diet for our son, mainly we have not been doing GF/CF diet. Do you recommend moving to a full diet, i.e giving him milk and Gluten.
A: Milk and milk products – yes. Chocolate milk made with real Cacao is supported by the suggestions. I checked gluten items:
Gluten Free was a mild negative (-25) but checking for specific gluten foods, they were all more negative
Wheat was also a negative – 103
Oats was also a negative -32
Barley was also a negative -146
So, I would suggest keeping him gluten free
Q: (From Social Media): “I wonder what the effect is/was of 5 to 6 bananas a day”
A: In the suggestions, bananas was listed as a take in terms of the microbiome. Potassium is a factor for some autism (not all):
The message from the parent was clear and with lots of documentation
My 5 y.o. daughter is having major gut issues for which I am seeking your help. She is having these issues since her birth and we just stand helpless while she cries most of the night. I have made an excel sheet explaining all her issues for your reference. I am also attaching her Biomesight.csv file, HTMA Test, GI Map test and her other medical test and stool test results for your kind reference.
Gut Issues
Sensory Issues
General Behaviour
Socialization
Speech
History, Curent Supplements & Diet
Excessive Gas mostly in evening and night.
Hitting Hard Objects/Plastic in the front teeth
No aggression , no self injurious behaviours
Doesn’t have age appropraite play behaviour
No true words. Only few nonsense syllables
Birth weight-3.45 kg. C-Section delivery.
Bloating
Crashing & Jumping on couch & bed.
Sweet frendly kid. Attention seeker.
More afectionate to adults than kids.
Started comprehending two word commands with gestures
She had several doses of Antibiotics due to flu, fever on more than 5 occasions. She had a teeth infection for which she was given antibiotics. She also had some gut bug for which she vomited more than 12 times in a single night, in the past (at the age of 20 months)
Fatulence/Burps
Looking from the corner of the eye.
Scratching others
Near Normal Eye Contact and Sitting behaviour.
Child expresses her needs through hand leading and dragging parents towards the desired object.
Child gained a lot of weight since childhood. She was 22kg at the age of 2.5 years. Now she is 40kg. Her height is 120 cm
Undigested food in stool mostly vegetables
Rocking back & forth while standing.
Biting other
Poor Focus & Attention
Celiac test is negative. Low in Vitamin D & Iron. Ultrasound test of abdomen is normal
Constipation. Bristol Stool Chart No.-3/4
Making sudden loud noises
Pinching & Hitting others
Shows no interest/high resistance to any learning activity. Escape behaviour
Supplement– SunFiber, Liver Sauce, Chamomile Tea, Sodium BiCarbonate to relieve gas issues.
There is immediate relief as soon as she passes the gas through fart or burps.
Stifening of whole body and hitting with her finger tips
All the above problematic behaviour is noticed when the kid has gut issues
Hitting her face on gym ball/mattress
Hand Twirling infront of her face.
Slightly edited notes from parent
Initial Review
My expertise is statistics associated with the microbiome, not autism (although I am a high functioning ASD person).
First looking at distributions we see a predominance of rare bacteria. Usually that hints at herbs to reduce their numbers. Dr. Jason Hawrelak Recommendations placed her at the 95.6%ile, so a main stream solution is unlikely.
Looking at the unhealthy bacteria, several stands out as items of concern:
Escherichia coli – which are likely the unhealthy ones. This immediately causes me to suggest either Mutaflor (available where she lives) or Symbioflor-2, the goodE.Coli probiotics. Given her age, I would start with Symbioflor-2 because it is given in drops and thus we can slowly ramp up (to avoid severe adverse effects). The other option would be to repackage one capsules of Mutaflor in eight capsules and start with lower dosages. Given the symptoms above — this would be my first course of action if it was my child.
Serratia is also high. Usually associated with urinary tract infections. For this, we have less literature. I would suggest neem tea and perhaps lactobacillus casei (probiotics)
At this point we have a little dilemma — Escherichia coli and Lactobacillus are hostile to each other, so it’s an either/or. I would usually resolve it by 2 weeks on one and then 2 weeks on the other, recording any changes seen.
Given the history of needing antibiotics in the past, I looked at the computed suggestions. If the needs arise again, see if your MD is willing to use any of the following:
macrolide ((antibiotic)s) (0.444)
imipenem (antibiotic)s (0.382)
fluoroquinolone (antibiotic)s (0.337)
ciprofloxacin (antibiotic)s (0.305)
clindamycin (antibiotic)s (0.294)
erythromycin (antibiotic) (0.274)
Please make sure that you check risk factors for the above, especially given her age. For example, fluoroquinolone has many! The above were calculated solely on the microbiome impact, not risk factors.
Other Medical Reports
After the first impressions above, I went to look at the other test results
Hair shows slightly out of range for Arsenic (common for ASD)
Celiac tests: negative
Cortisol: in range
Lipid Profile: normal
Serum Free T3+Free T4+TSH: normal
Ultrasound: normal
Vitamin D + Iron: normal
Gastrointestinal Pathogen PCR (Stool): Negative
Liver Function: normal except for
Alkaline Phosphatase: high (2x upper limit)
Sodium and Potassium – slightly high (similar on hair above)
I will make the assumption that at least one round of antibiotics were done between the GI Map (Mar 29,2022) results and the Biomesight results — although I have read studies questioning the reliability of some GI Map results.
Probable Symptoms
This was recently revised, and seems to match — especially the time since offset.
Symptom
Matches
less than 04 years since onset
77
Frequently loose train of thought
75
Lyme
74
Less Avoidance of Eye Contact or Poor Eye Contact
73
Where Do we go from here?
I picked the following to build the consensus report shown below:
Special Studies: Autism (75)
Special Studies: Inflammatory bowel disease ( 86 candidate bacteria) – given all of the bowel issues
I should note that symbioflor 2 e.coli probiotics is on the avoid list — this often happens when there is a need to increase lactobacillus which was sitting at 6%ile. When lactobacillus is low, I tend to ignore the avoid on E.Coli probiotics and point out the mutual hostility they have – so do one and then the other, noticing any changes (the one that gives the best positive change, do more of — but keep rotating). I usually suggest starting with the E.Coli probiotics because they are known to persist. This is rarely the case for Lactobacillus probiotics.
People who have uploaded their (or their children) samples have annotated some with easily irritated. On my main blog, I have been doing a series of deep statistical dives on my main microbiome blog site, and checked it the data available reaches the threshold for inclusion as defined in A new specialized selection of suggestions links (A summary table of various studies has been added there).
I am posting here to since it is a blog focused on Autism and easily irritated is a common symptom.
Study Populations:
Symptom
Reference
Study
Easily irritated
1108
55
Bacteria Detected with z-score > 2.6: found 146 items, highest value was 9.9
Enzymes Detected with z-score > 2.6: found 896 items, highest value was 5.9
Compound Detected with z-score > 2.6: found ZERO items
For the number of samples, the z-score for bacteria are unusually high compared to other studies in the series. A high z-score means strong statistical significance. Enzymes has a huge numbers detected without any extreme values – this is interesting but unsure on how to interpret that.
Interesting Significant Bacteria
All bacteria found significant had too low levels
The most significant ones are listed below. I should point out that these bacteria may not be the cause, rather they may be ‘the canaries in the coal mine’ of the microbiome. These studies’ methodology determines association and not causality.
Bacteria
Reference Mean
Study
Z-Score
Prevotella oulorum (species)
63
17
9.9
Prevotella copri (species)
65522
9089
8.8
Clostridium malenominatum (species)
57
22
6.3
Pediococcus (genus)
112
48
6.1
Phocaeicola coprocola (species)
7544
45
6.1
Actinobacillus pleuropneumoniae (species)
57
19
6
Opitutae (class)
169
43
5.8
Puniceicoccaceae (family)
163
40
5.8
Lactiplantibacillus pentosus (species)
122
17
5.8
Bifidobacterium cuniculi (species)
81
25
5.7
Cerasicoccus arenae (species)
552
87
5.5
Prevotella (genus)
73346
26681
5.5
Puniceicoccales (order)
114
35
5.4
Veillonella (genus)
4004
1945
5.4
Cerasicoccus (genus)
319
56
5.3
Tenericutes (phylum)
3138
1053
5.1
Interesting Enzymes
The first 100 enzymes (of 800+) found significant had too low levels.
The term “irritability” on PubMed often links to irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), making this difficult. The closest proxy appears to be stress (most people that are stressed tend to be irritable…) and there was some matches. We have agreement on the following being low.
Atopobium
Lactiplantibacillus plantarum
Anaeroplasma
Coriobacterium
Tenericutes
Bottom Line
Lactiplantibacillus plantarum is the modern name for Lactobacillus Plantarum, a commonly available probiotic.
People who have uploaded their (or their children) samples have annotated some with Autism. On my main blog, I have been doing a series of deep statistical dives on my main microbiome blog site, and checked it the data available reaches the threshold for inclusion as defined in A new specialized selection of suggestions links (A summary table of various studies has been added there).
I am posting here to since it is a blog focused on Autism.
On the [Changing Microbiome] tab
Study Populations:
Symptom
Reference
Study
Bloating
1082
67
Bacteria Detected with z-score > 2.6: found 196 items, highest value was 8.2
Enzymes Detected with z-score > 2.6: found 203 items, highest value was 7.6
Compound Detected with z-score > 2.6: found ZERO items
For the number of samples, the z-score are unusually high compared to other studies in the series. A high z-score means strong statistical significance.
Interesting Significant Bacteria
All bacteria found significant had too low levels with the exception of the following that was too high:
Prevotellaceae (family)
Prevotella copri (species)
Prevotella veroralis (species)
Bifidobacterium gallicum (species)
Peptococcaceae (family)
The most significant ones are listed below. I should point out that these bacteria may not be the cause, rather they may be ‘the canaries in the coal mine’ of the microbiome. These studies’ methodology determines association and not causality.
Using microbiome studies from published studies is often difficult because the results often vary greatly due to the lab equipment used and the software used to interpret the data.
Items Reported Low – none are reported in the literature
The purpose of these studies is to enable apple-to-apple-to-apple analysis and suggestions. The same lab is used for the raw read (Ombre and Biomesight uses the same lab) and all of the data is processed thru the same software (BiomeSight). Your sample (if you use the website) is processed thru the same process.
A final comment on most published studies, typically there are 25 Autism patients and 25 control patients. This actually results in much lower sensitivity in those studies than we have with over 1000 as the control.
Bottom Line
The SAMe “shouting out” in the enzymes being in agreement with published studies causes me to have considerable confidence in the analysis. Dr. Artificial Intelligence suggestions on Microbiome Prescription look like they are likely to have positive results.
P.S. If anyone does more drill down into the enzymes above in the literature, feel free to add your findings as comments.
I am not a licensed medical professional and there are strict laws where I live about “appearing to practice medicine”. I am safe when it is “academic models” and I keep to the language of science, especially statistics. I am not safe when the explanations have possible overtones of advising a patient instead of presenting data to be evaluated by a medical professional before implementing.
I cannot tell people what they should take or not take. I can inform people items that have better odds of improving their microbiome as a results on numeric calculations. I am a trained experienced statistician with appropriate degrees and professional memberships. All suggestions should be reviewed by your medical professional before starting.
The purpose of this post is to educate on how to use the site.
Backstory
This is a child with autism
His major issue is his severe repetitive OCD behaviors, asking same questions 25 times a day, non-stop scripting of latest things that interests him. Watching and doing same things over and over again that he likes, very severe OCD with opening closing doors since age 3
ADHD symptoms, can’t sit down still can’t focus on anything.
Speech at 10 percentile, can understand well but cant express much, Recently started asking more what and when questions
Several type of tics. Started him on Mag citrate and Pure B complex his blinking tics vanished.
Sensory seeking, likes to press chin and cheeks on me, jumping on me, rubbing his head and face on me
General anxiety
Low muscle tone, mito issues
NO aggression, NO head banging or self-injury, sweet friendly kid
No socialization, does not know how to play or even talk to other kids, unappropriated behaviors
Smart kid can do advance math, was able to read since age 2 and a half, however comprehension and understanding of context is low
Currently he takes following daily; Zinc picolinate 25mg, Klaire labs Benfotiamine 150mg, Pure B6 complex, Metagenics Ultra C, Designs for health Magcitrate powder, Vitamin D and high EPA fish oil, B12 injections twice a week.12 –
We did a 90 days gut-reset (killing and repopulate phases) with a functional doctor last year in November. And then we did 3 weeks of Sporonox. There was no improvement in his symptoms after finishing the protocol. Still have bloated belly.
Analysis
The usual health analysis raised nothing outstanding. Remember we are comparing a child against adult standards knowing that the microbiome change greatly during childhood. The sole medical condition raised in Acne, a very common condition. High counts of Bacteroides fragilis and Parabacteroides. Dr. Jason Hawrelak recommendations came in at the 56%ile, so a little concern.
The percentile chart came in reasonably balance with no major shifts
KEGG (Genomes) based Suggestions
Nothing showed up — which cause me to look at the raw data. There are measurements on 1834 compounds. 415 of these compound were over 90%ile. One would expect 10% to be over 90%ile, i.e. just 183 compounds, not 415 compounds… hence the conclusion that it is not under production of compounds but over production. For Enzymes, his numbers are in line with expectations (203 out of 2045, i.e. the expected 10%). For end products (an old estimate from ad hoc data), he had nothing over 90% or under 10%.
Getting that information required me to go to the data directly and do some manipulations. To make life easier, I created a new section on the [Research Features] tab, shown below.
I then went to to check his bifidobacterium levels — because most kids with these types of conditions, especially autism, have sky-high levels here. This was NOT the case here, this sends up a red flag that this kid is atypical — and thus treatments that help others may have no effect or make him worst.
We happen to have an OATS test result also included. So on the Research Features, we went to see what would be suggested for actual levels (as reported by OATS) versus modelled levels (which found nothing).
On the [Changing Microbiome] tab
We found that most of the items that were out of range were in a direction that probiotics could not help. Of the few that the shift was actionable on we got the following suggestions:
Most of the suggestions had lactobacillus acidophilus in common — so if none of the above is available consider a probiotic that is L.acidophilus only
Pro Forma Consensus Building
This appears to be the best course here. I am going to do the usual, and then add some advance one that are specific for symptoms:
I would say do no probiotics (75% of them are on the avoid list). That would only increase lactobacillus which has a reported association to OCD. The one possible exception with a weak positive impact is saccharomyces cerevisiae (probiotics)
I see Vitamin B12 injections — Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B-12) came up as an AVOID for suggestions and OATS shows no issues. Was there documented evidence for these or was this a MD saying “lets try this”?
Again, the question to be resolved by you — are the some of the supplements being taken based on a clinical lab finding deficiency OR ad hoc suggestions received from people. Remember, we found an abnormal over production of many compounds above, pouring more compounds into his body without a clear lab verified need — may not be in his best interests.
I am not a licensed medical professional and there are strict laws where I live about “appearing to practice medicine”. I am safe when it is “academic models” and I keep to the language of science, especially statistics. I am not safe when the explanations have possible overtones of advising a patient instead of presenting data to be evaluated by a medical professional before implementing.
I cannot tell people what they should take or not take. I can inform people items that have better odds of improving their microbiome as a results on numeric calculations. I am a trained experienced statistician with appropriate degrees and professional memberships. All suggestions should be reviewed by your medical professional before starting.
Back Story
I enclosed 3 labs: Her last GI MAP, an older OAT, and recent OMBRE.
I have done work since the OAT, obviously.
She was diagnosed with ASD around 20 months old. Since birth severe gastro problems. Re-occurring vomiting and severe GERD. Gastro preformed her first upper scope at age 2.5. He found some food in her stomach. Gave her a gasteopresis diagnosis. At age 5, her second scoop and biopsies and her gasteopresis DX remained. Found nothing on biopsies. Her vomiting stopped once I changed diet by 3 years old. (It was a dairy allergy causing her to vomit once I figured it out, she never vomited again) I don’t believe the GP diagnose fits her and she can’t do the emptying study so he based this dx off food in gut per two scopes.
PANS/PANDAS dx at age 3.5.
Has not had a fever since 12 months old.
She is non speaking 6 years old and has cried on and off in pain her whole life. We’ve believed it was her gut from day one . She had a bad smell most of her life coming from her gut.(breathe) I believe this is clostridia as she has tested high with every stool test we’ve ever ran. It got better briefly with a course of abx but came back worse. The smell is the worse when she wakes in the morning. Her stool has always been extremely foul smelling. She has taken some form of probiotics since she was 1 year of age. I have tried to use different strains but my knowledge is limited.
Severe ear infections since an infant so abx use is very high. 10 times or more.
My next course of action after helping her gut is Lyme and coinfections testing. My research and her latest doctor have lead me there. So if you see anything hinting that way, be very helpful. It’s very expensive testing and I’m just unsure.
Basic Analysis
The usual basics are below:
Dr. Jason Hawrelak: 95.6%ile on both
Same sets of bacteria deemed unhealthy, with all of these over 95%ile
Potential Medical Conditions Detected had some apparent hits:
ADHD at 96%
Functional constipation / chronic idiopathic constipation at 95%
Insomnia and Sleep Apnea likely matches
Clostridia was a specific area of concern, she is at 27.5%ile at the class level. Looking at lower levels we see some if its ‘kids’ are a problem. Three bacteria makes up 60% of the microbiome!
26% -> Bifidobacterium 98.4%ile <- Typical with both children, especially with Autism and PANDA
My immediate thought is to look at the suggestions when we hand picked these four. They so dominate the microbiome that trying to adjust the other will likely be shouting in a hurricane (i.e. no one will hear).
The results we far less than ideal (i.e. very few items over 0.5)
It is interesting that the first prescription items is Risperidone, it is prescribed for irritability caused by autism [more information, including risks]. This hints that there is a match for the bacteria causing irritability in autism. My take away from this list is simple: remove any items on the Avoid list (which includes many vitamins and probiotics “deemed healthy”). bacillus subtilis natto (probiotics) is available is the Japanese desert food Natto (I like it, a bit of an acquire taste) with nattokinase supplement being a potential alternative. The other top items(not prescription) to take are available as supplements etc. I attach the full list.
Two probiotics showed up at the top that are not available on the shelves of any US Health store: symbiopharm / symbioflor 1 and bioflorin (deu) / bioflorin. In fact, the top items are rich in European probiotics. Symbioflor-1 is available from the German Apotheke and will ship world wide (we use them) as well as bioflorin (which is expensive per capsule, so try symbioflor-1 first for the sake of your wallet!).
In terms of supplements, the following should be reviewed with your MD
Amylase (Enzyme) – Percentile: 1
beta-alanine – Percentile: 2.6
Glycine – Percentile: 2.8
L-methionine – Percentile: 3.6
Molybdenum – Percentile: 0.5
NADH – Percentile: 3.4
Remember that the basis of the KEGG data is identifying compounds that a person is low in. This is based on the hypothesis that part of the microbiome disruption is caused by rationing and impeding the operation of various bacteria. Our data is incomplete — so it is a best estimate.
Dive into Antibiotics Taken
I started the easy way — just looking at the Special Reports for your MDs. Everyone given encouraged this child’s dysbiosis.
The purpose is to give alternatives that may address medical needs while helping correct microbiome shifts.
Azithromycin for about two months straight at onset of PANS. ( – 0.555 )
Augmentin (amoxicillin) several times for ear infections and later in life with a functional medicine doctor to address her GI MAP. ( – 0.487 )
There are a small number of antibiotics that may help the microbiome — if antibiotics are required in the future. Discuss if any of these may be acceptable to the MD (i.e. negotiate!) for addressing his rational. Note that the general class macrolide contains both good and bad choices: bad choices (azithromycin), good choices (erythromycin).
These are computed from available literature.
Checking the Positive Benefit for Prescription items, it was very very short. the first suggestion was epinephrine (Adrenaline). This surprised me. A common pattern is too much epinephrine with autism. We need to tread carefully here because levels can be high or low in different parts of the body.
In a group of 22 autistic children aged 5 to 16 years and a group of normal controls matched for age and sex, catecholamines metabolism was investigated in plasma, platelets, and urine. This investigation was part of a research project in which several biological parameters (including serotonin) were explored simultaneously in the same children. In the autistic group, epinephrine and norepinephrine were significantly elevated in plasma, while epinephrine, norepinephrine, and dopamine were significantly lower in isolated platelets. No significant difference was found between the two groups for the urinary excretion of epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine, DOPAC, and MHPG. Other differences between the two groups in the statistical correlations of several biochemical parameters also suggest abnormalities of bioamine metabolism in the platelets of autistic children.
Q: How long do you recommend a follow up stool test after implementing some things?
A: For most things I recommend rotation of suggestions. The purpose is to destabilize the stable dysfunctional microbiome. A typical rotation is 2 weeks. The soonest would be after 4 rotations (2 months), if things are improving then just keep going until things appear to stabilize — then do a new sample to get the next course correction.
Q: I saw high mycoplasma on the lab’s page – is that a concern? This could explain so much as it is a main trigger for many PANS kids. Did I see that correctly?
A-1: The literature: “Anti-Mycoplasma pneumoniae antibodies and anti-Epstein-Barr virus Nuclear Antigen antibodies were found positive in 11 (42.3%) and 5 (19.2%) patients with PANS,” [2019] This can be tested for directly and that would be the best way to answer.
A-2: Labs (and Microbiome Prescription use different criteria to determine “high”. Your child reading for Mycoplasma was 192 / 1,000,000 bacteria or 57.2%ile. Ombre reports 70% of all samples have some mycoplasma. The level is not abnormal. The chart of values, showing your sample is below
Q: Any evidence of Lyme Disease
A: Lyme is caused by Borrelia. It is reported on Ombre/Thryve tests 0.2% of the time. None was reported in report. Conclusion, unlikely. Given the degree of dysbiosis and the known high rate of false positive with many Lyme tests when there is dysbiosis (typically caused by EBV not being fully controlled due to the dysbiosis), I would say that without a red bull-eye rash on the child — do not bother testing. The antibiotics likely to be prescribe will make your child worst.
I am not a licensed medical professional and there are strict laws where I live about “appearing to practice medicine”. I am safe when it is “academic models” and I keep to the language of science, especially statistics. I am not safe when the explanations have possible overtones of advising a patient instead of presenting data to be evaluated by a medical professional before implementing.
I cannot tell people what they should take or not take. I can inform people items that have better odds of improving their microbiome as a results on numeric calculations. I am a trained experienced statistician with appropriate degrees and professional memberships. All suggestions should be reviewed by a knowledgeable medical professional before starting.
Patient Notes
My son has headache, lethargy and reduced sleep. He’s in the spectrum so there are a lot more symptoms associated with it. But these are things I am trying to figure out, help him at least have a life without pain.
Analysis
As a result on my involvement with Long Covid Study – VERY early data, I built some private tools (computational intense, with good statistical understanding requires) .
The number of bacteria flagged for the closest match to the symptoms (with good sample sizes) are shown below. Each set of suggests had a lot of similarity to each hour, especially with red winenear the top of most lists. Red wine to children was historically done (especially French and Italian kids), but . . .
At this point, I decided not to grind thru the standard set of suggestions, instead look at the consensus data (which is attached as a download below). The list was less than usual, 180 items.
Percentile in top or bottom 10% -324 bacteria picked (out of 696 available, 46%!!)
The consensus report is attached, the suggestions appear similar but with shifting up and down on the list and a lot more items (567 vs 180 above). This video shows the process
I did a VLookUp in Excel between the two lists to see the similarities and differences. There were a few difference. My usual advice is “if we don’t know the right answer, omit unless there is a strong reason to include”
Custom
Pro Forma
Modifier2
317.5
262.4
choline deficiency
309.3
382.7
rice bran
205.2
79.2
Prescript Assist (2018 Formula)
193.6
208.6
vitamin b7 biotin (supplement) (vitamin B7)
164.9
80.4
high red meat
153
-13.2
saccharomyces boulardii (probiotics)
152.3
63.6
low fodmap diet
152.3
159.4
low protein diet
138.8
-21.6
low-fat diets
130.8
62.8
calcium
124.2
-24.4
fructo-oligosaccharides (prebiotic)
118.5
-32.7
vsl#3 (probiotics)
108.5
72.3
saccharin
105.4
-15.6
red wine
105.4
2.4
schisandra chinensis(magnolia berry or five-flavor-fruit)
105.4
44.2
stevia
105.4
22.8
l-citrulline
98.4
74.7
Prescript Assist (Original Formula)
Questions and Answers
One of the fundamental challenges of the microbiome is a lack of information on many interactions because studies have not been done. The site attempts to use whatever fragments of information that is available as well as the genes of the bacteria (when the data is available).
Question #1PIANETA FARMA/KefiBios – I saw his Akkermansia is at a good level. Do you still recommend this probiotics?
The only known impact is on Akkermansia but that was not the basis of the suggestion. The suggestion came by looking at the amount of various compounds that he appears to be low in (using Kyoto Encyclopedia of Genes and Genomes on the bacteria he has, and the bacteria in various probiotics). Most of these compounds are not available as supplements.
Question #2: Prescript-Assist®/SBO Probiotic – I saw the list on your website. Sorry, I want to understand a little more detail about it. I know its soil based probiotics. I wanted to understand if it will help improve bifido .. I saw this has bacillus.
Answer: There is no known direct impact on bifido. If Bifidobacterium is your primary concern, excluding every other bacteria involved, then see this page. Suggestions are based on a holistic analysis, not a blinkered view.
Question #3: Also do you have any recommendations to help reduce the histamine level?
Answer: Diamine oxidase (DAO) is the supplement commonly used to reduce the impact of histamine [study]. “Histamine is a monoamine synthesized from the amino acid histidine through a reaction catalyzed by the enzyme histidine decarboxylase (HDC)”[2018] Trying to find the bacteria involved is a bit more speculative.
Clicking on Enzymes
Searching for histidine involved enzymes, we see that he has very high levels of two:
The other way, using Diamine oxidase, is to go over to KEGG, it is Enzyme 1.4.3.22, none of the bacteria he has appear to produce it, nor do any of the bacteria reported from 16s samples.
Question #4: Choline Deficiency – Does it mean we have to give him a PC?. You had mentioned there might be Choline in his diet. So is it more or is it deficient?, I think choline and Ammonia might be impacted because of the Antifungal regimen he is in?.
Answer: Choline occurs naturally in food, Background: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/choline/ A study on choline deficiencies found that the bacteria we targeted were shifted in the desired direction. There is a lot of literature on choline ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=choline+deficient+diet ) and digesting that is a job for your medical professional. My usual takeaway is check what is normally eaten for choline content and consider reducing it a bit by changing foods (after consulting with your medical professional). No need to go to extreme measures… it is just one possible factor.
Question #5: Also the modifier 2 means he needs all those based on his microbiome, Is it right?
Answer: I do NOT know what he needs, the suggestions are strictly things that have been calculated from available data that has improved odds on shifting the microbiome towards the typical microbiome. Everything is probability and odds — nothing is definitive. In the absence of definitive knowledge, I believe that modelled data gives better suggestions than “let us try A,B,C”. For dealing with ME/CFS, the suggestions of what should help matches the literature on what helps – which increases my confidence in the model.
Some recent work has identified bacteria that are associated with Autism. For a summary of method, see this post. The following are the list of bacteria seen with Biomesight samples that are annotated with Autism. There are not sufficient samples yet for specific autism characteristics – so please check your uploaded samples and update the symptoms.
These are bacteria that you want to reduce (with one caveat — the suggestions algorithm requires the percentile to be 50%ile or more). How to hand pick them? See below the list.
Note: you may only have a few of these. They are shown in the same sequence as seen on Microbiome Tree. The LAST item is what was found to be statistically significant.
My son is born in 2009 and diagnosed with autism in 2011. When he was 3 months old he has lot of reflux and unable to digest milk always used to throw up and we ended up using antibiotics because of mucus forming issues and at 10 months he had few words.
And at 18 months he got diagnosis’s of autism and was completely Non-Verbal.
After removing gluten and dairy from his diet at age 3.5 he started saying words
he also got diagnosed with Lyme and coinfections like bartonella and Babesia .
Now he is 11 years still having lot of issues like his weight is just 55 Lbs he has focus issues and lot/severe OCDs and tantrums and lot of rigidity and not conversational yet ,cognitive issues cannot understand abstract concepts and has lot of echolilia and no social skills and gets head pain all of a sudden which might be PANS will last for few minutes and will be fine again.
And he has lot of Gut issues like failure to thrive even though his diet his healthy he does not gain weight at all and he has leaky gut and always have constipation issues and poor digestion issues and picky eating and he complaints some times that his stomach hurts and some times his stomach gets very tight like gas forming. And he has brain and Gut inflammation.
Very recently from couple of months he started having Acid Reflux issues after eating he will be spitting for an hour as if something is coming back from his stomach.
We also noticed that when ever he eats chicken and eggs he is more constipated. We did the GI work up and everything came up normal except one thing that he does not have enzymes to digest lactose and also we make sure he is not constipated and his bowls are moving everyday with some laxative.
We have two samples for this person, while we will use the last one for suggestions, a comparison may be spark insights.
Basic Analysis
Looking at the two samples, we see that things are very different than with the ME/CFS person in this post. Instead of over representation in rare bacteria, there is over representation in common bacteria (i.e. the bacteria that most people have).
Earlier
Sample
Latest
Sample
Percentile
Genus
Species
Genus
Species
0 – 9
10
1
7
7
10 – 19
10
9
9
12
20 – 29
6
9
8
13
30 – 39
10
18
7
10
40 – 49
12
9
6
12
50 – 59
12
15
9
18
60 – 69
10
7
8
12
70 – 79
10
16
10
16
80 – 89
25
39
22
38
90 – 99
103
149
40
64
Std Dev
29.31
44.00
10.65
17.61
Looking at “Potential Medical Conditions Detected” for both samples we see a very long list of candidate conditions for both samples
For “Bacteria deemed Unhealthy”, again we have some long lists
For “Dr. Jason Hawrelak Recommendations”, we have the earlier sample at 75%ile and the latest sample at 98.8%ile, i.e. “no issues”
AI Computed supplements at 10% level: Neither sample had any.
There is the appearance of improvement between the sample. This may be solely due to the changes due to age (18 months between samples), or moving further away from microbiome disruptive events of the past.
Going Forward
We need to go with some caution because the child microbiome is different than an adult’s and most of the data we are using are from adults.
I am going to build the consensus in a slightly different way than usual:
Seeing lactulose as a very strong to be avoid agrees so much with no tolerance for milk. I checked the antibiotics positive/negative benefit and was actually surprise to see on the positive impact many of the antibiotics used for ME/CFS and Lyme: fluoroquinolone (antibiotic)s, tetracycline (antibiotic)s, minocycline (antibiotic)s with the best one being vancomycin (antibiotic). This was interesting because “Vancomycin is used to treat colitis (inflammation of the intestine caused by certain bacteria) that may occur after antibiotic treatment.”[MedlinePlus]
Questions And Answers
Do you mean your current recommendations is not to use any probiotics or use only Lactobacillus salivarius strain of probiotics ?
Only a very small number of probiotics appear to have a positive impact, less than 18. The other 39 came out with a negative effect. You need to read the labels carefully.
I also for the earlier sample you mentioned the PDF use of prescript assist soil based probiotic and also lactobacillus bulgaricus (probiotics) and lactobacillus kefiri . I have not used these so now do you think using them might be helpful based on the analysis
Those are on the recommended list, so YES
And based on your analysis what is most pathogenic bacteria that I need to address from the sample which is problematic such that I research and see how to reduce it?
Unlike most people, this child has a huge amount of Lactobacillus bacteria, he has 98% more than anyone else in the database. Clicking on the link above (and those below) are the worst offenders where his levels are higher than 95% of peoples
In the video, I will show how you can find suggestions EXPLICIT for these.
What key strains of good bacteria do you think is missing for weight gain or in general ?
Every good strain becomes bad if there are too many of them, for example Lactobacillus above. The microbiome should be viewed as “Yin/Yang” and not good and bad. I really do not have a clean answer for that question.
Which Lactobacillus strains does he have has 95% which I need to avoid further is it Lactobacillus Reutri and Lactobacillus Johnson and Lactobacillus planetarium are those the ones which I need to avoid completely to give or any other list?
ALL Lactobacillus are similar with only small changes between them. They are a family. As with human families, they cross support each other. You want to lower all of the Lactobacillus, ideally have no lactobacillus probiotics.
Currently I started using sauerkraut , thinking he needs more Lactobacillus strains and I read sauerkraut has lot of different good strains. Would it be still okay to use it?
He DOES NOT need more Lactobacillus strains — he needs a lot less!
In my humble opinion NO. Two main reasons:
You have no idea of which bacteria are in. Commercial versions usually do not list the species. On the few that do, it is very questionable if the label is correct. ” the species of lactic acid bacteria present in sauerkraut fermentations are more diverse than previously reported and include Leuconostoc citreum, Leuconostoc argentinum, Lactobacillus paraplantarum, Lactobacillus coryniformis, and Weissella sp.” [2007] For Weissella, he is at 90%ile — too high. He does not need more
Do I need to do anything to reduce Lactobacillus strains that are high?
A word of caution here. Are you going to target just one item of concern in several dozens by focusing on this item (with the potential cost of many other things becoming worst); or work from suggestions that are targeted to improve the microbiome as a whole?
In response to question #3, I did a hand picked of all of those over 95%ile on the Health Summary with the results shown below
In response to quest 5-7, the Lactobacillus tree. Note that of 65,000 Lactobacillus bacteria — less than 1,400 ( 2%) had the species identified. We do not know the species that he is high in.
A short list of Suggestions
To be discussed with family MD before starting
Antibiotics
A course of vancomycin (antibiotic) to start
3 weeks after this course is finished one of (piperacillin-tazobactam or gentamicin)
Supplements (add one a week for 3 weeks than take 2 weeks off)
A baby aspirin once a day — watch especially for any improvement in brain activity
He may have a sub-clinical (mild) form of Antiphospholipid syndrome (thick blood) triggered by the microbiome shifts – I am reflecting my own experience here.
One of the easiest modern ways to do it, is to download this data as a CSV and save on your smart phone when shopping.
REMINDER: The items indicate odds/confidence in shifting the microbiome is the intended direction. It is NOT how effective it is. Each item in the take likely improves your odds of improving when taken; keep taking items the avoid list — continuing likely increase the odds of not changing.
Recent Comments